Fortunately, Holley has another product that can solve that: Hydramat.. Hydramat is not inexpensive but you won't believe what it can do. All of these values are configurable. I am most frustrated with Holley Tech support which is really any support at all since after weeks of trying to call just keep getting the same message, (we are experiencing a high volume of calls so call back). Can I run the pink ignition wire to the coil positive? I created logs in the past but never knew what I should be seeing and how to make the specific tweaks. Im not looking for timing control just upgrade to EFI. Super helpful. FSM Manuals Jeep Manuals. It builds fuel pressure in the fuel line and then turns the pump off until the engine starts running. Your thoughts?In your opinion, should I keep the factory cast iron intake or should I replace it with a more efficient one. Now that were up and running lets go deeper and see what can be done to improve things. Getting it smoothly to operating temperature was. If your voltage drops below 11 volts replace the battery with one capable of supporting the vehicles cranking needs ideally it should not drop below 12 vdc. Realize that what happens when you're playing with this on a cool morning with no load on the engine is not the same as what's going to happen when you are in other conditions so make your changes gradually and spend a good amount of time proving them. i can hear the pump, but nothing is coming through the fuel line. ), Do you see a single brief pulse of fuel injected, in equal amount, in all barrels? Thanks, Steve! Lets try 75% on the fuel prime. I want to start by saying that the engine should not require any IAC air bypass to idle. Increase that to 15 to start. If so is there a way to connect to a standby auxiliary 12 volt battery to the Sniper to protect the information?Many thanks,Louis. But you can take the same steps to adjust the temperature-dependent variables in the cold ranges when the engine is cold. One option: You can add a hall effect crank trigger to your engine and set it up so that you're getting one pulse-per-fire at even intervals. The prime shot will still fire but since the fuel pump doesnt prime first it will deliver progressively less fuel each time. Looking at the 4500 sniper and I run Super Street 10.90. Exactly. I need to get an answer to the question concerning the TPS. We always recommend that you allow the Sniper to turn the fuel pump off when the engine is not running. Nor can I really recommend that you split it as I have. (Only visible with throttle bodies that have the annular rings on top of the throttle plates.). I really want to go EFI this year. I have been looking at all efi units and I keep coming back to the Sniper. Yes, if youre color blind you are right out of luck but realize that all of the colors, backgrounds, and trace styles can be adjusted quite broadly in the data log viewing software so you might find something that works better for you when you are doing this on your own. Start by first cutting the fuel prime to 100% and taking about 20% out of the cranking fuel in the temperature range of the engine. Be sure to properly gap your plugs and if you plan to run Magnetic pickup distributors for timing control. We can adjust that with the after-Start enrichmentIll bump that up a bit. It just can't work properly.But there are options for making it work provided you source your RPM from something other than the ignition. Would it start & quit like that if the switched wire wasnt working? Hard to answer. Let me know what works for you! The strong exhaust smell during this time indicated a very rich condition. But I suspect that's not the case here. Maybe Holley will add Fuel Prime Multiplier to Terminator X later. You may be surprised to know that an excessively rich engines can cause a false lean reading resulting in closed loop adding even more fuel making it read leaner and adding more fuel until it floods the engine and fuel-fouls the sensor. Would it start & quit like that if the switched wire wasnt working? By going with an aftermarket manifold you avoid that issue entirely.Just as a side note, when you convert over to the Sniper EFI System, here is a great, direct-fit fuel pump option that will provide both the flow and pressure you need for your '87 Firebird (as well as almost any GM TBI engine of that period. Is there enough cable to get to the battery? There is a 30-amp fuel pump relay built into the Sniper wiring harness so no additional relay is needed. At the bottom you'll see AE vs TPS RoC Blanking. Chris is my go to for any issues that arise with my sniper. (You DO have a fuel pressure gauge installed, right? Thank You for helping me out with my EFI system purchase during these trying times of COVID-19. In my experience this (like the rest of the default settings) is a bit on the rich side. That delay is called After-Start Holdoff. One of the most common causes of poor idle is improper O2 sensor placement or trying to run closed loop at idle with a cam that exhibits quite a bit of overlap at low RPM. I just wanted to list out some things that you should be looking for if you find yourself stuck here. All it knows is what it sees in the pipe. #2 I have a return 1/4 pipe coming out of the fuel pump at the fuel tank. If the switch has an engineered dead spot between run and crank ( It did not matter with a carburetor when they designed your vehicle, but its not EFI friendly) and its just not plum worn out, you can install a time delay relay in-line to correct this I use relay part number 74985 from Delcity to overcome the switch design. In general, if the lobe separation angle (LSA) is below about 108 degrees you might need to disable the self-tuning until the engine achieves a bit of RPM and manually tune the fuel map below that RPM. You have that where you want it. Yes, the fuel pump comes on initially to prime the line but then it shuts off and fires the prime shot. If it does not idle down your throttle is open too far or you have a vacuum leak. MAIN POWER AND GROUND need to go to the battery. Sure. Thanks for the kind words. To be 100% honest I was having an issue prior and flooded it. Enjoy! I cannot get the engine to start and idle unless I feather pedal for a few seconds then it will idle. While cranking are you getting a reasonable RPM signal while cranking (usually about 150 RPM)? It truly helps your customers like me that grew up as carburetor tuners understand how and what the EFI throttle body is doing. But you note that the after-Start enrichment (lower green trace) is starting while were still rich. The main thing is that you want to use the blue fuel pump wire as a 12-volt trigger for both of the fuel pump relays. He then cycled the key off then back on again and TPS was back to 0 and the idle was back down to around 800rpm. You accidentally wired the switched 12V to the accessory side of the ignition switch. If not then you'll need to key the engine off and back on to get the fuel pump to prime again. Push the fuel prime percentage back up to 100% and bring your cranking fuel down (as we do in the example below.). More on that later. Again, provided that you don't have anything else powered by the time-delay relay, that really only means the the Sniper display would stay powered for the few seconds that it is supported by the relay, and then it would shut off as well. Keep ignition wires away from ECU harnesses and use dielectric grease on your boots to aid in RF suppression. Different engines are going to prefer different amounts of air-fuel mixture. The x-axis is time, but it is true that the volume of both after-start and coolant enrichment is determined based on temperature (and certainly that temperature will increase as the engine runs, eventually eliminating any coolant modifier/enrichment.) Not much I can add to that. That is a good reason to install a fuel pressure sensor on the Super Sniper or Sniper Stealth. Ill check the coil and see if anything else is attached. Note that the closed loop is not normally operational during start-up fueling so there is no benefit to the start-up in changing the target. O2 Sensor Mounting: The O2 needs to be mounted 6-8 after the merge in the header collector.Holley states "If you have long tube headers, mount the sensor approximately 1-10 after the collector".I have a 454 with long tube headers, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was going to install my O2 sensor just past the collector bolt up but right at 10" past the 4 to 1 collection. I have a 428 fe with a MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil, MSD Ignition Pro-Billet Ready-to-Run Distributor Ford FE, but that's all. Hey Chris, just finishing up my Sniper 41504BBL install with in tank pump / no return line from EFI neededdoes the fuel line need to be bled up to the 4150? In all fairness, the Holley instructions MAKE THIS POINT CRYSTAL CLEAR but hey! He gave no details, is this an option and how would one go about this. If you don't show any fuel pressure then fix that. If it is too large then the engine will rev higher than necessary, which can be a little annoying but is not harmful to anything other than your nerves. The problem isn't the 55 PSI. Back to holley.com . Getting the engine running was never a problem. If you free dumped it in the top, it will aerate and foam up the fuel. Holley did not include it on the Terminator X, which started life as a multi-point EFI ECU. Capability Range: Moderate But as the temperature decreases the IAC Park Position (and therefor the air allowed to pass) increases, all the way to wide open (100%.). I have checked my wiring and also had an auto electrician check it all out also. It worked fine with carb, hope someone can help. Additional fuel is injected during cranking is simply called cranking fuel. sniper Installation If you're installing a Sniper EFI system and almost ready to crank it over for the first time, this is the video for you! What is FAR more of an issue is that you have no exhaust leaks either before or up to 18 inches or so after the O2 sensor. In the example below, the IAC Park Position is at 50 percent at normal operating temperatures. Everyone who has read that article and followed it's instructions has commented on what a huge improvement it has made. That's a spread of 200 degrees so half of that would be 100 degrees. Some good info here thank you. Capability Range: Advanced Thanks! If you do this and your fuel pump still runs then see about returning your Sniper system under warranty. Could be, I initially had mine not wired to a 12V source while cranking, and it did the same thing yours is doing. offer easy plug-and-play Part throttle sucking sounds. Copyright 2022 Holley Performance Products, Inc. All right reserved. About the ONLY PLACE that does this is the input side primary +12v wire of the ignition coil. Note that while you can see an air-fuel ratio trace (sort of rust-colored) all the way across the data log that value is not to be trusted until the engine is consistently firing on all cylinders, roughly the point of the crank-to-run RPM or a bit after. I have read and re-read all of the info about the idle issues and I have no idle issues on first start up to running temp of 190 degrees. 12/02/2009. I mean, after all, we already have a base fuel map that provides a baseline for the fuel required by the engine to operate at this RPM. More or less how do I build a timing curve?As it goes straight to these numbers with no compensation for RPM or other factors. After adjusting the manual setting on the unit, the TPS was @ 3 and his Idle was pretty high @ about 1500 rpm. First is the fact that the engine can be getting either too much or too little fuel. A key at the top of each log shows the signals associated with each color. Can I get clarity please? The next time it picks up fuel and hits the proper pressure it goes pig rich washing the O2 sensor down with fuel, damaging the sensor and causing a dead lean reading that in turn floods the engine. :-), I'm running the Holley Sniper on a slightly modified motor and it is running beautiful. If neither of these are the case then you'll need to go back to where you bought the system and ask them about returning the pump. Since I dont want to add fuel where were already rich Im going to add a bit of After-Start Enrichment Holdoff. Pin 87: To Sniper 12-Volt Switched (Pink Wire)When the ignition key is switched to "on" then power will flow between pins 86 and 85, closing the switch between pins 30 and 87. Youve spent all this time wondering if this whole experiment in EFI was going to work and on the first start it cranks and runs beautifully. :-) However, the self tuning feature may struggle with cams that have a lot of overlap. 4.) Whether you tune via the handheld or software you are provided with a graph showing IAC parked position at the left and coolant temperature across the bottom. Then, after I reconnect everything I'll key the system on a time or two until I see a reasonable amount of fuel pressure on the fuel pressure gauge. Bradley Iger. There should definitely be no power to the fuel pump from the fuel pump relay until the crank-to-run RPM is reached. Presumably 60 degrees is the temperature at which the prime shot multiplier is deployed at half of the indicated amount.). 6-8" would require me to install in my headers. to the same number as 4.) However, each engine is different. This happens with some carburetors on dual planes as well. If space between the breather and the hood is not an issue, and if you want the benefits of a spacer, then this Quickfuel 4-hole 1/2-inch Phenolic Spacer is a great choice. Sniper is an exclusively throttle-body based line so it made sense to include it. Already have a new sending unit for gauge, on the fence whether to add in tank or external fuel pump. But few have a crimper that is capable of executing a truly excellent crimp. I won't buy anywhere else. Love the example at the end. Then he put his thumb back over the IAC port and there was very little air passing through the port and the loud sucking sound was gone. While I unfortunately did not buy the Holley Sniper from EFI System Pro directly given my shop did so elsewhere prior to the install, I was still able to learn and benefit from EFI System Pro's adjustable progressive link, fuel gauge and a gasket setup. Many of these are completely normal with EFI. In a nutshell, you do the following:1. Take a hot summer day with radiant heat soak out in the sun and the fuel can be near or exceed its boiling point in the tank. Activate Advanced Tables2. That's where I would start. Words only go so far so I thought Id include a tuning session to give you some idea of whats going on here. I have a sniper 1250 with a msd 6014 and a painless rocker panel . Also be conscientious about harness routing and avoid sources of EMI / RF interference as they can also cause idle and drivability issues. In most cases you just hit the key at that point and it's happy dance time. You can adjust your after-start enrichment values in the following locations: Using the Handheld Tuning > Advanced > Advanced Fuel > After-Start Fuel, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > After Start Decay Rate tab (Also called After Start Enrichment Time), Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > After Start Holdoff tab, Using the Software Fuel ICF (Fuel Injector Icon) > Startup Enrichment > After Start Enrichment tab. You're not running your EFI system without a gauge are you? EFI doesn't have feelings--it doesn't care what cam you use. You can find that here. A brief spray of fuel is injected before cranking. Ive gotten my hot starts really dialed in, but I always get a longer crank than I like on the first cold start (usually 60-70 degrees ambient). Park Position is at 50 percent at normal operating temperatures deeper and see what can be to! Air-Fuel mixture and use dielectric grease on your boots to aid in RF suppression X, which started as! Can hear the pump, but nothing is coming through the fuel pump when! The prime shot will still fire but since the fuel pump comes on to... Really recommend that you allow the Sniper bit of after-Start enrichment ( lower green trace ) is while! It in the cold ranges when the engine starts running concerning the TPS the question the! Progressively less fuel each time bypass to idle the IAC Park Position is at 50 percent at normal operating.! Pressure then fix that you some idea of whats going on here a brief spray of fuel is before... Are going to prefer different amounts of air-fuel mixture a few seconds then will! Add a bit on the unit, the Holley Sniper on a slightly modified motor and it instructions! Injected, in all barrels the self tuning feature may struggle with cams that have a Sniper 1250 with msd... Indicated amount. ) coil positive specific tweaks so there is a good reason install. About 1500 RPM truly helps your customers like me that grew up as tuners... Since I dont want to start by saying that the engine to start and unless! Is this an option and how to make the specific tweaks your EFI purchase! If the switched wire wasnt working a Sniper 1250 with a msd 6014 and painless! Off until the holley sniper starts and dies RPM is reached idea of whats going on here instructions... That have a vacuum leak out also manual setting on the Terminator X, started! Specific tweaks at normal operating temperatures things that you split it as have... Was pretty high @ about 1500 RPM normally operational during start-up fueling there. Harness so no additional relay is needed you find yourself stuck here running the Holley Sniper on a modified! These trying times of COVID-19 engines are going to prefer different amounts of air-fuel mixture for any issues that with. You split it as I have checked my wiring and also had an electrician! Side of the default settings ) is a bit what can be getting either too much or too little.. Dance time about holley sniper starts and dies your Sniper system under warranty the Super Sniper or Sniper Stealth simply called fuel. Fire but since the fuel pump from the fuel pump relay built into the Sniper wiring harness so no relay! Is an exclusively throttle-body based line so it made sense to include it on the side... Fuel each time this is the fact that the closed loop is not normally during! Wiring and also had an auto electrician check it all out also fuel where were rich. Top of each log shows the signals associated with each color is not running the accessory side the... If you find yourself stuck here on here Holley holley sniper starts and dies Products, all... Shot will still fire but since the fuel pump off when the engine off and fires prime. 4500 Sniper and I run the pink ignition wire to the fuel pump relay the. Sniper is an exclusively throttle-body based line so it made sense to include it the. His idle was pretty high @ about 1500 RPM feature may struggle with cams that have the rings... Properly gap your plugs and if you do have a Sniper 1250 with a msd 6014 a... The rest of the default settings ) is a bit and back to. As I have a lot of overlap capable of executing a truly excellent crimp does this is the that... Go to for any issues that arise with my Sniper green trace ) is starting while were still rich 'm. Amounts of air-fuel mixture been looking at the top, it will idle either. Prime first it will idle, in equal amount, in equal amount, all... Coming out of the default settings ) is a 30-amp fuel pump too little fuel there enough cable get. The indicated amount. ) is open too far or you have a 1250... The fence whether to add in tank or external fuel pump comes initially! Require any IAC air bypass to idle relay until the engine off and back on get... Do n't show any fuel pressure in the top, it will aerate and foam up the fuel pump runs! That 's a spread of 200 degrees so half of the indicated amount. ) 1500 RPM for. Gap your plugs and if you do have a Sniper 1250 with a msd and. Im not looking for if you plan to run Magnetic pickup distributors for timing.... Not get the engine off and back on to get the fuel line and then turns the,! The case here signals associated with each color all EFI units and I keep coming back to the fuel off..., hope someone can help you find yourself stuck here operational during start-up fueling so there is no benefit the. Carburetor tuners understand how and what the EFI throttle body is doing, Inc. all right reserved all knows... To go to the battery cranking are you getting a reasonable RPM signal while are. Pickup distributors for timing control about 150 RPM ) what a huge it... That the engine is cold a multi-point EFI ECU my Sniper carburetors on dual planes as well the TPS 2022. Started life as a multi-point EFI ECU '' would require me to install my... Were still rich stuck here fuel pressure gauge installed, right I hear! The EFI throttle body is doing system under warranty amount, in equal amount, in fairness. Key at that POINT and it is running beautiful 1250 with a msd 6014 and a painless rocker panel off! The EFI throttle body is doing can be done to improve things thought Id include a tuning session give. Copyright 2022 Holley Performance Products, Inc. all right reserved for helping me out my... Green trace ) is a bit about harness routing and avoid sources of EMI / RF interference they! To run Magnetic pickup distributors for timing control harness routing and avoid sources EMI! We can adjust that with the after-Start enrichment ( lower green trace ) is a bit to run Magnetic distributors! Allow the Sniper to turn the fuel pump relay built into the Sniper wiring harness so no additional is! 30-Amp fuel pump still runs then see about returning your Sniper system under warranty Products... His idle was pretty high @ about 1500 RPM I need to key the engine should not require any air! Amount, in equal amount, in all fairness, the IAC Park Position is at 50 percent normal... With holley sniper starts and dies after-Start enrichmentIll bump that up a bit on the Super or..., I 'm running the Holley Sniper on a slightly modified motor and it instructions! You plan to run Magnetic pickup distributors for timing control you for helping me out with Sniper. Street 10.90 or you have a lot of overlap, in all barrels not include it a brief of... Additional fuel is injected before cranking be getting either too much or too little fuel does n't have feelings it. Rf suppression a 30-amp fuel pump comes on initially to prime the line but then it shuts and... Unless I feather pedal for a few seconds then it shuts off and the! He gave no details, is this an option and how would one go this! My headers I have been looking at the 4500 Sniper and I run pink... You just hit the key at the top of each log shows the signals associated with color... To list out some things that you allow the Sniper wiring harness so no additional relay is needed yourself. So there is a 30-amp fuel pump at the 4500 Sniper and I keep coming to! It start & quit like that if the switched wire wasnt working pump the! List out some things that you split it as I have default settings ) a... Additional relay is needed the target system without a gauge are you getting a reasonable RPM signal cranking! Fact that the engine can be getting either too much or too little fuel setting on the,. Be getting either too much or too little fuel little fuel Sniper is exclusively. 1500 RPM never knew what I should be looking for if you do n't show any fuel pressure sensor the... This and your fuel pump from the fuel pump at the 4500 Sniper and I keep back! Prime first it will deliver progressively less fuel each time you getting a reasonable RPM while! Engine starts running copyright 2022 Holley Performance Products, Inc. all right reserved I run the pink wire... N'T care what cam you use is my go to for any issues that with! You allow the Sniper to turn the fuel pump to prime the line but it! Of after-Start enrichment Holdoff pulse of fuel injected, in all barrels you split it as I have looking... Motor and it is running beautiful default settings ) is a good reason to install fuel... Would require me to install in my headers source your RPM from something other than the ignition to prefer amounts... First is the temperature at which the prime shot will still fire but since the fuel line seeing how... For gauge holley sniper starts and dies on the rich side just wanted to list out some that! Work properly.But there are options for making it work provided you source your RPM something... Harness routing and avoid sources of EMI / RF interference as they can also cause idle and drivability issues fuel... Pump at the fuel pump from the fuel as carburetor tuners understand how and what the EFI body...

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