Im so grateful now for that heritage. I think that he lost that. So he said something about so and sos clothing. And I think there is a healthy fear. I think one of the things that happens in churches, from a deformed leadership standpoint, is requiring boards to operate in unanimity or using unity as a cudgel against people who have firm convictions about things. Stuart and Jill Briscoe have always had a passion for teaching God's Word and speaking Truth into people's hearts and moving them toward God. In another area, it might be used to groom someone and use vulnerability as a mechanism to draw people into something that is corrupt. May God lead your next steps and may you find ways to use your gifts from a place of health. And if you think its not, you know, go and look in your church building right now, if youre quarantined under COVID, or youre not gathering. This was an excellent interview and elders need to read this interview. And its like, now someone inside the tribe has said, Something is wrong here and it must be dealt with. And it took someone of Scot McKnights gravitas to be able to shift the discussion at Willow. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. The woman had come forwarded, but then later recanted her story. Volunteers monitored the process in real time, turning over cassettes at the appropriate time to record on the second side. But it was after a period of I dont know the details, and I dont know how much youre at liberty to say them, but its my understanding he went away for a period of time to kind of reflect and assess how he was doing and how he was handling things. I was blown away. Yes, I would view it far differently today. Maybe some of your listeners are familiar with that you can go on YouTube and and see what thats all about. Amen. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. You have your identity rooted in something other than Christ, the centrality of Christ. Can I talk about Scot McKnight for a second? Well, and it troubles me too, that so many of our Christian organizations seem to be more beholden to lawyers advice and counsel than they do the Word of God. I think ultimately, we are still kind of under the inertia of a culture that was fomented by Pete Briscoe, which was a culture of goodness, a culture of grace and its still carrying forward under that momentum. But this is the beauty of I think whats arisen is an independent media. Briscoe How do you recommend searching worth while places to donate too? I want to thank Pete too for advocating for women participating fully in leadership and for Libby modeling what it means to be a true helper (ezer kenegdo). Who hasnt given a friend a friendly kiss once in awhile? And Hybels said, essentially, Yeah, well, well do it that way. And Clinton showed up and then didnt comply with anything that the board had said. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. So its more than flirty words or suggestions. To us, he was Stu, Dad and Poppa and we already miss him achingly." Pete grew up in a home with intelligent and committed parents: both He has been married to Jill for more than 59 years and has three children and 13 grandchildren. Very few. I know about the deleted emails. And theyre born knowing how to do that. How does our elder board navigate things differently with that Pastor? And you mentioned to me that there were some stop signs along the way. Literally thousands of people have come to know Jesus under Bill Hybels teaching and yet, he was morally bankrupt at the same time. The cover up of his behavior manifested at the elder board level. So disappointed in ECFA. After a failed attempt to travel alone in his truck out west, he came to church with us that very day. As I look back on my own four years on staff, Im thankful for the teaching and leadership that Pete Briscoe has brought to Bent Tree, and I know that so many of us have been impacted by his attention to the Lord and quick obedience to however God leads him. Mitch is an attorney, a church elder and an advocate for abuse victims. Now, God is leading our friend and leader Pete away from these walls, and we look on with sadness the sadness that comes when a season you love is passing. That night we had a guest speaker come in for a special presentation. I had no idea what to expect as this lone man stood on the stage. But at 22, I completely bought it. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? I think that they were scared of what Ill call the Christian Industrial Complex that had risen up around Bill, the economic consequences of speaking out on a topic of high consequence. And he came back and said, I cant do this anymore.. Hmm. If they have the character to lead the accountability will help keep them you know, keep them honest, so to speak, you know, its kind of like when you put a bike lock on your bike that. Yes, I have be disillusioned many times by churches and some leaders. So, while I have strong feelings about this, as you can imagine being a lawyer, but at all points, legal advice has to be subservient to Scripture. Jill The small tape recording process drew the attention of many people who were eager for a copy of the teaching they heard at church to share with friends and neighbors. Put a skin tag on it or a flesh tag. But theres something wrong in the whole business of Church. Youve youve created a fiction when you organize church, what is a church organization but a legal fiction, right? WebPete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021. And that set the course for some of these more severe things to continue happening, and then to even get more and more severe. Please contact us or click here to learn more about how to enable JavaScript on your browser. That was my upbringing. Its about serving God. Pete was preaching from Hebrews, and he was making the New Covenant come alive before all of us. One of those women is Vonda Dyer. Great question. It is. Stuart Briscoe died on August 3 "of natural causes unexpectedly" according to a tweet from his son, Pete Briscoe. it is. And so when I looked at that in the context of James MacDonald going, you know what, thats the type of accountability that man needed and was denied. They had so many churches, thousands of churches coming on board and being a part of those. I did live it. Just what I call a deformed leadership culture at the church where certain things became acceptable that shouldnt. Serving in the role of elder is a huge responsibility. Lets say you have you have six or eight members who are saying, Guys, we need to fire this person. So, Mitch, how is it that a lawyer from Texas ended up representing victims of sexual harassment at a mega church in Chicago? They show up, they sell books. Im so glad that theyre godly men like you serving. And I think that Bill Hybels created an advocacy structure around him by having that many lawyers on the board. And youre in the process right now of looking for a senior pastor. It involves a level of compartmentalization that is truly stunning. Nobody has said they had intercourse with Bill. In our church, we have a no tolerance policy. I hear you say that and I believe in accountability really strongly. It took a variety of forms. But then its my understanding too, that when these women met with the elders, the level of bullying and abuse that they were subjected to, was such that I know Vonda told me there were elders in tears at the end of this, of how pervasive the abuse was, I dont know how specific you can be but can you give people an idea of, of what actually happened to these women that were abused? For more information just go to JudsonU.edu. So you can go to Amazon and enter in Boz Tchividjian and his book will pop up but you need to know what youre looking for because people who are sexual predators, they have an acuity for blending into society in ways that they dont stand out like this is not like, you know, the sexual predator in your church is not some, you know, grease ball sitting outside your kids ministry just kind of looking for a way to get at, like, thats our common image of what a sexual predator is. In the early 2000s, as Stuart and Jill transitioned into minister-at-large roles and spent more time traveling to serve the global church, an additional voice was added in order to bless the supporters ofTelling the Truth. And now lets put that in the past. Willow did not want to reckon with the deformed culture that had manifested underneath Bills leadership. Their board operated by unanimity as well. Fortunately, we have not had so much as one complaint about any one of our pastors or staff members. And I thought, I think I knew what he was doing when he named it that, but heres why I think its so ironic. Pete Briscoe, our pastor at our church came out in support of the Dyers, which was bold, and it was brave. We were talking a little bit about the elder board. So Mitch, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. Also, major problems. I mean, you dont need to be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, because it is gonna manifest itself in bad ways. It is what manifests. So since youve seen a lot of this kind of up close and personal through talking to witnesses and elders and staff people, how bad was the abuse at Willow Creek? So Scot, its like the scene in The Avengers when Iron Man just kind of drops out of the sky. It is not a building. Dear anonymous. And what lessons can we learn from Willow Creeks mistakes? I think thats dangerous. Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. Its good to be visiting with you again. Fifteen years later, I joined staff at Bent Tree. Guest Bios Show Transcript Spiritual abuse has become an increasingly hot topic, as more and more stories of bully pastors and hyper-controlling, Guest Bios Show Transcript After years spent in an abusive church, how do you heal? But they spoke. But when we look at it from some practical ways that God used people to undo this, explain what you see as being the key forces. WebIt is with heavy hearts that the Elders of Bent Tree announce that Pete Briscoe has submitted his resignation as Senior Pastor. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. How do you get people to come to church when there are more authentic people in the bars? They wont produce any vanilla beans. Yes, in the course of representing these women, it became obvious that this was not what Ill call an echelon or tier leadership problem, just at Bill Hybels level. Julie, you may want to review this pointwasnt a problem? And I remember you saying. WebLearn More About Pete Today - Pete Briscoe God loves you to distraction, There is nothing you can do to make Him love them more or less, And, that Life with this Lover God is rich beyond description, regardless of your performance. But before we begin, I just want to take a minute to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. But you have seen the the worst of it. Theyre not holding anybody accountable then. We bought the routine and its shocking. And to do that, we must avoid falling into the trap of our Christian beliefs being pitted against culture in the public sphere of debate. Bent Tree is a multi site mega church in the Dallas Fort Worth area thats had its own share of crises over the past several years. Ive asked that question many times. And a lot of us who sat in the congregation and received from them were, you know, duped and we bought it. Just go to BuyACar123.com. God uses the faithful and generous support of people like you to continue to change lives through the ministry of Telling the Truth. Thank you so much. And really, I came back to the Lord at Willow and He used that church to help me reestablish my relationship with Him and with His church. Likewise. We are egalitarian and sophisticated, and we are Gods chosen church to show how ministry is supposed to be done. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. So many people are looking the other way. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. When you think about the economic reach of an organization that was that size within evangelicalism, my goodness, even Christianity Today was scared to run articles about it. Judson is located just 36 miles outside Chicago on a beautiful 90 acre campus. Hybels at one point had a major conflict with a woman who was serving on the elder board, who was trying to hold him accountable and essentially used a reconciliation process involving some other big names in evangelicalism to essentially run her off, put her under an NDA. Growing up in a ministry family, Pete watched and learned from his parents and witnessed the reach and power of Telling the Truth 's media outreach. By the way, the best thing that was said in the recording is that if character isnt there, none of the regulations will matter, and if character is there, one doesnt need the regulations. None at all. Youre absolutely right. About Stuart and Jill Briscoe Hes also the chairman of the elder board and his own church, Bent Tree Fellowship. This is the kind of thing that you would expect from someone whos cruel and not in relationship with Jesus. Bill Hybels and Bill Clinton, you know, developed a friendship over the years that at least what Ive discovered in my research, there was an invitation for Clinton to come and speak at the Global Leadership Summit, and a confrontation with the elder board about that because Clinton was on the heels of an adultery scandal. Im good friends with Vonda Dyer, who worked at Willow and was one of the women who bravely came forward with her story about her interactions with Bill Hybels. And so I thought it was so funny that James MacDonald had his house in the name of an entity called Vanilla Bean LLC. When you have a woman who says I was molested by a staff member, or you have a staff member who says, Bill Hybels just threw a punch at me, or dog cuts me up and down the hallway, those arent matters of policy, Julie. A man who "dedicated his life to sharing Gods Word with the world" has died at the age of 91. What is it that causes so many people who know better, to look the other way and allow evil to prosper? They have to be theyre incredibly convincing. When you say the IT department, its my understanding you came into some information about emails getting destroyed. He represented two women involved in the sex abuse scandal involving Bill Hybels. If you go back through Willow Creeks archives, you can see all the, you know, the authors of books who came in and were platformed at Willow Creek. And if youd like to find me online, just go to JulieRoys.com. I am thrilled to be here. And it turns out there were a lot more women who had been affected by Bill Hybels. He is with us today to talk about growing communication skills to improve preaching as well as how we can find deeper fulfillment in our work and lives. Absolutely. But so far, I havent seen that. This was something that was very deeply ingrained in their culture. I am with you in this sad place of justified disappointment in the church. It grows on the vanilla orchid, and it only grows in really exotic places like Tahiti, and there are some places in Mexico it grows too, but what is unique about the vanilla orchid is when it blooms, its got to be pollinated within one day. WebLearn More About Pete Today - Pete Briscoe God loves you to distraction, There is nothing you can do to make Him love them more or less, And, that Life with this Lover God is rich beyond description, regardless of your performance. So if you think of Willow as being a living thing, we are willing to put other things to death on the altar of preserving that organism. But he had the emotional and spiritual fortitude to say, You know what? WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. The news of Petes resignation landed heavy on my heart. About Stuart and Jill Briscoe I dont agree with a lot of his views, but he said something and it is true, we need to have, you know, church leader needs to have two voices, one for gathering the sheep and one for scaring away wolves. You can read about them at their website Teaching the Truth. It is simply to feed ourselves. You know, I think, Julie, the other thing that was really whacked out about Willows elder board, and I didnt find this out until very late in the representation was they operated by design out of unanimity. Im doing well but probably not as well as you because youre on vacation in Florida. https://world.wng.org/sites/default/files/issues/pdf/world_sep012018.pdf, Also, Id encourage you to read the website below. Hes one of the good guys. I learned that from Bill. And you have to, there must be assiduous accountability going on in the life of someone who has the big radio show has the big platform, his platform at conferences and large organizations, because the temptations are greater. Well Mitch, one of the things Ive never discussed is that we used to attend Willow Creek. The vanilla bean is incredibly hard to harvest. And I feel that way with these pastors. However, there should be a bubble level of character in Christ that we return to. That is not a matter of policy. And today Im excited to be speaking with Mitch Little. Board members selected in such a way are unlikely to honor their fiduciary duty ahead of their desire to please the board chairman or senior pastor. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. There was another case that also occurred where he committed oral sex with his assistant. Pete has offered to I I think its incredibly dangerous. Why didnt others support them? As I was working through the Willow Creek representation with these women, the thing that kept cropping up to me was the Milgram experiment. Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. It took me a long time to agree that he had done the things of which he had been accused. Now, I coach pastors and business leaders in communications and self-care. And theres a lot of people asking, Is that just too great a burden to ever put on one person? How do you respond to that? I think there was a culture of pride at Willow that basically said, We are the elite of the Christian world. And you you actually refer to it as multi-level marketing. Also, make sure you subscribe to The Roys Report on Apple podcasts or Google podcasts. Everyone I knew from childhoodparents, grandparents, pastors, Sunday School teacherswas upright and honest. For the next 90 minutes, Pete Briscoe enraptured us with his presentation of The Bema. I was blown away. Really what it is, Julie, if we want to get down to it and go to spiritual or biblical terms, these are these are works of the flesh when were not led by the Spirit. , was a key contributor to the Roys report on Apple podcasts or Google podcasts and bought... Process in real time, turning over cassettes at the age of 91 Mitch little what to as. Lot more women who had been accused Scot McKnight for a special.. Making the New Covenant come alive before all of us who sat in the Avengers when Iron man just of... Where he committed oral sex with his presentation of the Bema my former wonderful pastor grew..., thousands of churches coming on board and his own church, we have not had so much as complaint. Bought it the ministrys teaching team from 2003 to 2021 at what happened to pete briscoe,. 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