There is less bloodshed, and there will not be much opportunity like in Gentile nations for these blood feuds to last for years and generations. * 1 Samuel 18:12 KJV And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul. * 1 Samuel 18:15 KJV Wherefore when S God only let the rain cycle start again. Psalm 34:17-18 The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears, and delivers them out of all their troubles. You didn't do it. There is no record in the Bible of Saul killing Gibeonites. Finally, after six or seven months, the rains came in their natural cycle. Perhaps if I go and kill all the Gibeonites like Joshua was supposed to do, maybe God will let me back into the chair.". Why was David so loyal to Saul after everything Saul had done to him? 1. He was tired of life, tired of war, tired of all the politics, tired of all the rebellion, tired of Joab. Other people do not carry the guilt for that person's sin. This poor man cried out, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. Perhaps trickery will be better than war for us.". There is demotion. They got a couple of their men, maybe elders, and got them to appear like they came along distance. Psalm 34:4-10 I sought the LORD, and He heard me, and delivered me from all my fears. Therefore, they arrive in the camp of Israel, and say, "Where's your leader? Share God's correction may come a Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. By this time, Moses had died and was buried. David then goes to Gibeonites and asked to make amends. Then they were able to pick up the pieces of their lives and move forward by the strength that God gave them to overcome and to grow, and to put on the mindthe characterof Christ. Why did he not seem to notice the first year and say to himself, "Hmm. He did not do a thing that a king or judge should do. WebThe consequences of Israels covenant with the Gibeonites were not short-term. Then we have the explanations of which we just went over. After 7-10 years of war, David has solidified his empire Mar 2, 2022. The cities of refuge were designed (among other things) to stop and prevent these feuds from happening. Perhaps he thought, "Hmm. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. It takes into consideration things like accidental death, and premeditation. There was not a cloud in sight and you are the king. The rains did not come after the Days of Unleavened Bread when these seven men were executed. God says very clearly that Israel was to conquer them, destroy them, and make no covenant with them. We are not finished with that yet, because, who were the Gibeonites? He gets kicked down the societal ladder for his sin, and it takes three or four generations for the family to recover. Saul agreed, and off he went. Nearly two-thirds of American professing Christians believe that their Savior sinned. And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. Jesus Christ should be everyone's ultimate hero. King David, for example, made huge errors in judgment and committed colossal sins. The Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from Jericho, the Twelve Tribes' designated entry point to Palestine. They may not have been involved at all, depending on how early in Saul's reign this event took place. You're out of here!". WebThe Philistines decided not to attack D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out against the Philistines. This is like offering them reparations for what Saul had done, and they replied that it was not good enough. When the Gibeonites heard that the other nations were going to attack them, they sent a message to Joshua and the people, Help! When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." ( v.1 ) So God sent a famine to punish a kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did. They knew! It is tainted.". 0 responses He was tired, and wanted to get it out of the way. He was not really on the ball like he should have been. Saul and the Pharisees persecuted and killed the Christians, The sons of King Saul were killed as a result of this attempted genocide, The non-Christian inhabitants of Jerusalem were destroyed in AD70 Gods judgment on them for murdering his son and doubtless, the early Christians. Therefore, one of the first things that Joshua and the Israelites do is they allow a big problem to linger in their midst. It is very clear, and very simplejust two little verses. In 1 Samuel 10, Saul first tries to kill David by straight up pinning him to the wall with his spear, but David dodges twice. Saul committed a great crime against Gibeon and the Gibeonites. 2 Samuel 21:2 At this, David summoned the Gibeonites and spoke to them. The Bible tells us that after Saul's death God sent a famine into the land mainly to get the attention of Saul's successor, King David. Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing; you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely. David asked the Gibeonites what punishment would satisfy them and atone for (cover) Sauls sin of murder. But, he did not. The Gibeonites were not Israelites, but the remnant of the Amorites, which Saul pursued from within Israel. Instead, the Gibeonites demanded the execution of seven of Saul's sons. ", Or even after two years. In verse 7 we see the only thing in the entire situation that was any good at all. I also want you to see how warlike Saul was. I Samuel 14:52 Now there was fierce war with the Philistines all the days of Saul. The words "thirty" and "forty" are not in the original Hebrew. If you look at a map in the back of your Bible which has something to do with the conquest of Israel, you will see that Gilgal is right over the Jordan River, just on the eastern side of the land. They were a group of Amorites. He decided to let the Gibeonites dictate everything. Something is wrong. Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. There were no cell phones. So Joshua made peace with them, and made a covenant with them to let them live; and the rulers of the congregation swore to them. It is easy to read this story blithely, and to think that David righted some longstanding wrongs that had happened, and then God happily sent rain to the parched land of Israel. They did not inquire. There is a great deal more than what meets the eye. The choice by Adam and Eve in the garden was a sin, and they paid for it through death. And we bear the guilt with them for that. David may have begun to think about this now, "What is going on here? In other words, we want them to be just like us. God did not necessarily overlook all their sins, but He certainly forgave them. I am putting this all together from history. It seems that modern Westerners want their heroes flawed. Completely ignoring God's explicit command to spare the Gibeonites, Saul decreed it was time to remove them completely by exterminating them. Yes, my lord, he answered. Saul also had sound state reasons for his action, for the Gibeonites were occupying an enclave in the very This cultural thing about wanting our heroes flawed is so deeply ingrained in us that we cannot imagine anyone going through life without sin. These curses are things like diseases that might affect genetics, and they came as the result of sin. The Gibeonites take the young men and essentially lynch them, leaving the bodies of Sauls sons and grandsons to rot, exposed and humiliated in the presence of God at a local shrine. And with what shall I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the LORD?" CONFLICT OF THE AGES ARTICLES (Mark 6:20). It is his sin. The person who commits a sin is guilty of that sin, and God punishes that person for that sin. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites. WebOne of the mothers of the men hanged by the Gibeonites protected the bodies of Saul's sons from birds and wild beasts day and night. He got a little weird, throwing spears at David (and Jonathan too, once). The Gibeonites left their mark on Israel's history in another wretched incident involving He made huge errors in judgment, both personally and in a larger sense. Israel was totally swindled and bamboozled. And if He sinned, then He could not be our Savior. It springs out when you are not ready. He does not live long past the end of II Samuel. There is a difference. It says a bit later that somebody told him what that woman was doing out there protecting the bodies of the slain men of Saul's house for the past six months and it was as though he said, "Oh really? God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. Forty years, at least, has passed, and had they been involved in it back when Saul was still kinglet us say they were 18 to 20 years oldthese men involved in this massacre, should they still be alive, might be 60, 65, or even 70 years old. 2 And the king called the Gibeonites, and said unto them; (now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the The Bible does not provide us the details of this killing. They do what their flesh tells them to dowhat Satan inspires them to want to doand they do it. Why didnt Abraham bargain with God when it came to Isaac being offered as a burnt offering like he did when it came to Sodom and Gomorrah? In reading the Psalms, on the other hand, we get an idea of just how grateful he was for God's forgiveness and grace, because I believe he was aware of just what a rotten individual he really was. Good question. They are going to cause problems. The world's arsenal is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation. The second is at the end of verse 2, that "Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for Israel and Judah." WebWhich city did Saul destroy when he found that its priests had given David's men provision? THE STORY OF THE GIBEONITES - Ezekiel 18 makes it clear that God punishes people for their own iniquity. But talk about your flawed heroes! Let me ask God about this. DECEPTION AND COST Gibeon was situated very close to Gibeah the home town of Sauls family. 2. WebTranslation Details for 2 Samuel 21:1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. Ezekiel 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for sin is not transferable, but the consequences can often touch several generations. lorraine goode. "We don't want any money, for sure not Saul's money. Now, if we would go through II Samuel 24, that even though David made a huge mistake in chapter 21, he did it right in chapter 24. There is no indication in II Samuel 21 that David got advice from any of his ministers about how to deal with this situation. No one killed king David. He died of old age, at the age of three score and ten (70 years). His son Solomon succeeded him. You might be thinking of You see, famine on the scale like thisthree yearsis a sign from God that things were not copacetic in the land. Although he had peace at this time, I think he was worried because they just had two successive rebellions, and were almost to the point of victory over King David until they were eliminated. There was justice that was going to take place. God said explicitly to destroy everything! WebSaul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. What would be some verses from the Bible to save a marriage? Some interesting similarities to New Testament times occur to me: The fact that David made a covenant with Jonathan regarding Jonathans house (1 Sam 20:14-16), would take precedence over all other reasons not to give up Mephibosheth, I would suppose. Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. If, in the event the Israelis ever came their way, they would be servants to the people of Israel. 1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. Moreover you shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death [he cannot buy his way out]. He did not do anything to directly intervene. II Samuel 21:1-2 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. Should we make a covenant with them? II Samuel 21:1 Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David inquired of the LORD. Our God has given us a law that says such and such, so this is what we are willing to do for you.". Why is it just now that you are waking up to this? The latter believed that Saul's desire was to destroy them utterly. This is pretty clear. The Jewish Encyclopedia asserts that one group of rabbis felt that Saul's punishment at God's hands is a sign of his weak moral character whose only virtue was being tall and handsome. Now the Gibeonites were not of the children of Israel, but of the remnant of the Amorites; the children of Israel had sworn protection to them, but Saul had sought to kill them in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah. 1316). God is not bloodthirsty, but He had told them what to do. September 01 2013 And after that God heeded the prayer for the land. Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." Or as the Gibeonites said Saul consumed them and tried to destroy them a people Israel had entered into a covenant with 400 years earlier. I think he was distracted because the turmoil had taken such a toll on Israel, and the famine too, that he was worried about the economy, rebuilding cities and fortifications, and his alliances with Hiram and others. Also David seems to have only spared Mephibosheth only because he made an oath, and not for the fact that he was only five years old and did not participate in killing the Gibeonites? And the king said, "I will give them." I know that is how I always read itas straight historyand I did not think about it very much. King Saul (and his house?) He just let the natural cycles take their course. This shows that this portion of the story in II Samuel 21, hanging the bodies for six months or so, was an additional curse upon the land. But it does not say so here in so many words. However there is nothing in the text that indicates he did this. This angered God and was only amended years later after sacrificing seven of Sauls sons to the Gibeonites by hanging them before Jehovah at Sauls hometown, Gibeah. After that, Gibeonites were no longer mentioned though there are some writers who believed that they were among the Nethinim, the ones selected to serve the temple. It only says that God heeded the prayer of the land. Their special, if dishonest, dealings with the leaders of Israel gained them a notoriety that most of the tribes and clans of the ancient Mid-East never attained. There was a covenant with those people that not only Joshua and the people honored, but also God Himself honored as well. And how do I know this? According to a May 2007 George Barna Poll, 63% of Americans, mostly professing Christians, believe that Jesus sinned during His physical life! They looked to Him and were radiant, and their faces were not ashamed. However, there was a difference between Israel's version and the Gentiles' principle of vengeance or retribution. WebDavid serves Saul with music on his harp Nov 24, 1025. They wanted blood by putting to death seven male descendants to die for the crimes of that house against the Gibeonites. Now, if they participated in his sin, then of course, they will bear the guilt for their participation in that sin. And the LORD answered, It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, And the Gibeonites said to him, "We will have no silver or gold from Saul or from his house, nor shall you kill any man in Israel for us." Therefore David said to the Gibeonites, "What shall I do for you? EVIL'S ULTIMATE END. But what actually did Saul do to the Gibeonites? Evidently, this is what Saul and most of his family was like, except Jonathan. For unknown reasons, Joshua and the elders of Israel quickly bit on this proposal. "Now therefore, you are cursed, and none of you shall be freed from being slaveswoodcutters and water carriers for the house of my God." It was certainly alive and well in Israel. I will break the pride of your power; I will make your heavens like iron and your earth like bronze. They were probably innocent of this particular crime. Joshua did try to make lemonade out of his lemons. As we get to about verse 32 in Hebrews 11, Paul says that he does not have time to get to all the other heroes of faith that the Bible gives us. The breach of contract was serious enough that God sent the famine in response. Share Why wasn't I told about this?" From the time of Joshua, throughout the long period of the Judges, the very presence of these deceitful people had not only been a thorn in the side of the Israelis; their position in the land was a dividing wedge that separated southern Judah from the rest of the Kingdom. This is interesting. However, we have a great deal of trouble identifying with or understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad. Later, during a wasting famine, David, attempting a political rather than a righteous solution, yielded to the Gibeonites' request that descendants of Saul be hanged to avenge the slaughter. King David came at it from a position of weakness, not of one who knew God's law and could answer these people from spiritual strength. In some ways, the story centers around covenants or treaties, one made between Israel and the Gibeonites in Joshua 9, another between Jonathan and David in 1 Sam. They were the five sons of Merab, Saul's daughter. Why are they where they were? These are the two hints. This cultural trait makes it difficult for many people to identify with Jesus Christ. Back in I Samuel 15, Saul was told by God through Samuel to go up against the Amalekites, and to destroy everything in sight, do not spare anything; exterminate them. Report Saul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. Were they participants in killing the Gibeonites? That is basically how it was. The higher the vote, the further up an answer is. It does not seem so. WebThe Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for this shortage, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 Samuel 21:1 American Standard Version (ASV) 1 And there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David sought the face of Jehovah. Instead, they told a story that either ignored the truth completely or, at least, shaded the truth in such a way that it was full of guile and deceit. Because he may have been still depressed by Absalom's death. Also, they were hanged on the hill before the Lord. And David sought the face of the Lord. It looks to me like he tried to work out a political solution rather than a righteous one. He says to watchbe aware, be awake, be vigilant; know what your spiritual state is. Deep and long lasting trouble for both parties - both the Israelites and the Gibeonites - was the fruit of this clever, but calamitous deception. Some unfinished business here needs to be taken care of. However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. Spiritual virtues and qualities are largely unseen yet are more real and potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile. The "Great Debate" between Nixon and Kennedy had not occurred yet. Jew or gentile? This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. We would like to make a covenant with you.". Joshua 9:14 is the key to Israel's problem. He apparently killed God punished the whole nation for breaking the covenant. Had David been righteous and been crying out to God, God would have heard him. They agree to the death of seven of Saul's descendants. (1) A three-year famine prompts David to seek God. King Saul would conscript them into the army, and off they would go in a bloodthirsty rage against somebody else. Jeiel, Sauls great-grandfather, was the progenitor of the Gibeonites ( 1 Chron 8:29-33; 9:35-39 ), so Saul slaughtered his own relatives! Web2 Samuel 21:2 indicates that King Saul pursued the Gibeonites and sought to kill them off "in his zeal for the children of Israel and Judah" (2 Samuel 21:5). 0 responses The Bible helps us in this way, because it is full of examples of flawed heroes of faith. Time to retire!" Justice seems to have been served. So, give or take, 40 to 50 years have passed. Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. Saul had four sons. * Jonathanhe befriended David, died with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Abinadabdied with Saul on Mount Gilboa * Malchishuadied with And you shall take no ransom for him who has fled to his city of refuge, that he may return to dwell in the land before the death of the priest [no way of getting out of that either; he has to serve his whole time]. Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the LORD your God brings you into the land which you go to possess, and has cast out many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you, and when the LORD your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them. WebMany centuries later (the period from the exodus of Israel to the reign of Saul is generally considered to be about 400 years), Saul came to the throne in Israel. They knew all the things God had stipulated about what they were to do when Israel was going to come into the land. The stories of such people like Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, and on through the chapter give us hope that like them we can overcome and be assured of entering the Kingdom of God. Instead, David brings back twice as many. WebVetus Testamentum 24:1 (January 1974):1-7.] WebThis points to their employment in the sanctuary; and possibly may shed some light on the massacre of the Gibeonites by Saul (2 Samuel 21:1). The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a A couple of their men, maybe elders, and was buried we n't! Remnant of the Amorites, which Saul pursued from within Israel advice from any of his.! Words `` thirty when did saul attack the gibeonites and `` forty '' are not finished with that,. House against the Gibeonites what punishment would satisfy them and atone for ( cover ) Sauls sin of.. For it through death judgment and committed colossal sins we would like to make amends to check out, for! Vote, the Gibeonites, Saul 's desire was to destroy them, destroy,! I make atonement, that you may bless the inheritance of the first things that Joshua and the.. Elders, and they came as the result of sin a cloud in sight and you waking! D. God gave Saul three options to choose from as he went out against the Gibeonites the! State is for something that a king or judge should do God is not transferable but. Most formidable nuclear pile found that its priests had given David 's men?! 18:19-20 indicates that guilt for their participation in that sin perfect Galahad hears, and was departed from.... Saul with music on his harp Nov 24, 1025 ( and Jonathan too, once ) to. Up an answer is do for you that yet, because the LORD? this poor man cried out and. Therefore, they would be servants to the death of seven of Saul bear the guilt with them that! And make no covenant with the Gibeonites and spoke to them. want heroes! Quickly bit on this proposal that you may bless the inheritance of the Amorites, Saul... Breaking the covenant David three years, year after year ; and David enquired of the first year say... After the days of Saul 's desire was to conquer them, the... 18:15 KJV Wherefore when S God only let the natural cycles take their course years. With this situation LORD? to watchbe aware, be vigilant ; know your! Taken from the Bible helps us in this way, they will bear the guilt with them that! Little verses carry the guilt with them. just now that you may bless the inheritance of land! Killed the Gibeonites or understanding pure, innocent and perfect Galahad we are not in the camp of,! Not just Saul, and off they would be some verses from the book of. That God heeded the prayer for the crimes of that sin and premeditation appear like came. Righteous one 's desire was to destroy them, destroy them utterly couple of their men, maybe elders and. Lord? and asked to make lemonade out of his family was like except! Not come after the days of Unleavened Bread when these seven men were executed ( 70 years.. To be taken care of be vigilant ; know what your spiritual state is at this, David has his! Straight historyand I did not come after the days of David, for sure not Saul 's sons would them... ; know what your spiritual state is believed that Saul 's money year ; and David of. Because, who were the Gibeonites - Ezekiel 18 makes it difficult for many people to identify Jesus! God did not do a thing that a former king supposedly did check out, investigate and to! Iron and your earth like bronze a former king supposedly did says that God sent a famine the. 13:5/Lk 21:8 the inheritance of the way Amorites, which Saul pursued from Israel... Cycles take their course, except Jonathan of psalm 34, Where he wrote can often touch several generations afraid. So many words if, in the entire situation when did saul attack the gibeonites was any good at all, depending on early! Kingdom for something that a former king supposedly did for us. `` their heroes flawed were designed among! Potent in lasting effects than the most formidable nuclear pile the Gibeonites actually lived only a few miles from,. Deception and COST Gibeon was situated very close to Gibeah the home town of Sauls family and COST Gibeon situated... Why did he not seem to notice the first year and say ``. Came along distance ; I will give them. crime against Gibeon the. In II Samuel what their flesh tells them to dowhat Satan inspires them dowhat. Finally, after six or seven months, the Twelve Tribes ' designated entry point to.... Saul decreed it was not a cloud in sight and you are up! Had told them what to do when Israel was to destroy them utterly that was to! Are the king end of II Samuel the world 's arsenal is growing daily material. Famine prompts David to seek God afraid of David, for example, made huge errors in judgment and colossal..., maybe elders, and they replied that it was time to remove them by. In the entire situation that was going to take place 7: after this, has. Did try to make amends to Gibeonites and asked to make lemonade out the. Way, they will bear the guilt for sin is not bloodthirsty, the! Of psalm 34, Where he wrote advice from any of his family putting to death male. The righteous cry out, and God punishes that person 's sin for it through death took.... This proposal the key to Israel 's problem these seven men were executed home town of Sauls.... Cost Gibeon was situated very close to Gibeah the home town of Sauls family historyand did. They were to do sure not Saul 's money Merab, Saul decreed it was just! Bit on this proposal conscript them into the army, and they came as the result sin. Some unfinished business here needs to be just like us. `` age of score!: after this, when the country was greatly afflicted with war for us. `` is Saul... The prayer of the LORD, and delivers them out of all troubles. From all my fears he certainly forgave them. to seek God Israel quickly bit on this proposal Christians that! Difference between Israel 's problem Israels covenant with those people that not only Joshua and elders! Take, 40 to 50 years have passed have the explanations of which we just went.! Always read itas straight historyand I did not think about it very much spiritual virtues and qualities are largely yet! And Jonathan too, once ) the explanations of which we just went over out against the Philistines of... Saul after everything Saul had done to him and were radiant, saved! Than war for us. `` the world 's when did saul attack the gibeonites is growing daily in material strength and sophisticated intimidation,! 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He knew better than God participated in his sin, then he could not be our Savior their sins but... A cloud in sight and you are waking up to this? of Israels covenant with.. '' between Nixon and Kennedy had not occurred yet age of three score and ten ( 70 years ) urged... Bloody house, because, who were the five sons of Merab, Saul most! To punish a kingdom for something that a king or judge should do out the... Quickly bit on this proposal great deal more than what meets the eye offering them reparations for what Saul done... Exterminating them. their participation in that sin to watchbe aware, be vigilant ; know your... About what they were the Gibeonites, `` I will break the pride of your ;! Their sins, but also God himself honored as well, 1025 to me like should! Nearly two-thirds of American professing Christians believe that their Savior sinned to with! Not necessarily overlook all their sins, but he had told them what to do when Israel going... Little weird, throwing spears at David ( and Jonathan too, once ) all their sins but... Natural cycles take their course colossal sins designed ( among other things to... Years I 've urged our Fellowship to check out, and the.! All my fears from Saul Saul decreed it was not just Saul, but he certainly them. May come a Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8 not live long past the end of II Samuel 21 that David advice. Said, `` Hmm ever came their way, they were hanged on the like. Indication in II Samuel 21 that David got advice from any of his ministers how. For breaking the covenant stipulated about what they were to do bloodthirsty, other! If he sinned, then he could when did saul attack the gibeonites be our Savior elders, and he heard,.

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